A Tale of Elk's Flasher 450

[dditch66]

So I picked up Elk's Flasher 450, He gave me a really good deal on it that I could not refuse even though I have it up to my eyeballs in 450's. I took this on as sort of a challenge to get it flyable then sell it to a friend of mine that is looking at going electric. It came with lots of goodies that Elk was unloading. I also purchased his T6 radio and Rx.
I stripped off the Hitec 65MG servos. I repaired one of them that had a stripped gear. Yes, 65MG was stripped! Yes, it can happen.
I repaired the blueray head that came with it. I think this was one of Elk's early projects, Both thrust washers were installed with the large OD on the outside and one side had BOTH with the large OD. Dampers were both worn on the outside rings so I replaced with spare stock dampers. I accidently sliced the tail belt during re-assembly. The Blueray head had some loose screws in it (I bet it might have affected the flight too). Motor mount was bent. (Elk did you use this to bait a moose or something?)

This heli has seen some "action" to say the least. I think Elk was flying it over pavement?

I have the alpha 400 w/ a 12T pinion in it. And put the included volcano esc in it. I put stock Blueray servos that I recently repaired by replacing the plastic gearsets.
A Fitec 9257 analog servo ($11 shipped) that I purchased with nothing to put it into is in the tail and the gyro is a Mystery G410B that came w/ the Heli.

I have a couple more hours left on it but I did test out the electronics and reconfigure the radio tonight. I have a keychain cam that I might load onto the canopy for the maiden (or is it re-maiden?) flight.

Canopy will be a cheap plastic canopy that was from my existing stock and blades will be one of the CF pair that came w/the Heli.

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[flyinghigh]

Looks good and I bet it flies great too. In a few days I will start posting some pics of my EXI T 450 SE CF edition build, coming along slooowly.

[19000rpm]

David, Looks like a worthy project. I have the same radio with my Black Hawk and the idle up switch stopped working yesterday. I opened it up and the wiring is fine. Put a new switch in it and it still doesn't work. Could this be a programming issue? If so, I have misplaced the software on my new laptop and the laptop will not take the mini CD.

Happy landings

[dditch66]

Flyinghigh, Look forward to seeing your heli fly.

19k, The software is here:
www.mycoolheli.com/t6config.html

[dditch66]

I think it may be ready.
Need to check some things over.
I put a keychain cam on a spare canopy I had using a method someone else came up with
rc.runryder.com/fastphoto/23284/100_2093.jpg

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rc.runryder.com/fastphoto/23284/100_2095.jpg

rc.runryder.com/fastphoto/23284/100_2086.jpg

rc.runryder.com/fastphoto/23284/100_2087.jpg
rc.runryder.com/fastphoto/23284/100_2089.jpg

[19000rpm]

Thanks David.

Happy landings

[dditch66]

hmm linking photos does not seem to work well... I'll have to try this another way.

[dditch66]

Here is a pic

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[dditch66]

First Flight:


First forward flight on Jan 1 at my field.


It flies but it's basically back to what a stock blueray would fly like on an alpha 400 and 11T.

I have 2 other 450's that fly better than this so I think I'll see about finding a buyer for it. I think I have 2 locals interested in it so I'll see about having one of them buy it but I may have to wait till warmer weather before they are really gonna part with any money.

[dditch66]

OK, the flasher 450 has taken a big twist.

Someone sent me a tail equipped with what is called a DDVP.
That's a brushless motor that is attached to the tail. Unlike say a HBFP heli where the tail motor drives the tail blades and varies the right only tail thrust with variable RPMS, the DDVP drives the tail RPMS constantly and you still have a servo controlled by a gyro giving pitch input to the tail blades. Although I believe the first application was to use this for special scale helicopters, some folks are on a mission to make it something that "Solves" various tail problems. It probably causes as many problems as it solves, and easier solutions involve simple things like better servos and gyro, I was sucked into this by someone sending me the motor mounted to a tail box. I already had a 12A esc and everything else on hand to hook it up.
Well, I pulled the perfectly working tail off the flasher (cry, cry, wimper wimper) and put this DDVP thing onto it. I wired it all up and did a test spin of the tail motor in the basement.
I only need to add some more screws to secure it better and put the tail fin on but I should be ready to try it out. I think it would be interesting to extend the tail boom and put a angle extension on it like the apache to get the tail blades up and centered on the main blade plane.

We'll see how it goes.


(hmm, just rememebered I left the boom block screws loose. I better remember to tighten those up or it's gonna spin on me or even fall off....)

[Solitaire]

So, I take it "DDVP" stands for Direct Drive Variable pitch?
The tail blade speed is not affected by main rotor speed? I'm not sure I see why this would be any better than a conventional tail system. As you say, lots of well behaved conventional tails are out there with the proper gyro and servo combinations.

I'm not dismissing the idea (first I've heard of it, actually)... just would like to know what makes it a better system. A motor in the tail will affect COG adversely, plus that and an additional ESC justs adds weight.

[19000rpm]

Very interesting. I think the best part, for the flasher application, may be in raising the tail rotor to the main rotor height.

Happy landings

[dditch66]

Jan 6, 2010 23:43:50 GMT -6 Solitaire said:

So, I take it "DDVP" stands for Direct Drive Variable pitch?
The tail blade speed is not affected by main rotor speed? I'm not sure I see why this would be any better than a conventional tail system. As you say, lots of well behaved conventional tails are out there with the proper gyro and servo combinations.

I'm not dismissing the idea (first I've heard of it, actually)... just would like to know what makes it a better system. A motor in the tail will affect COG adversely, plus that and an additional ESC justs adds weight.

I agreed to try this cause I did not have to (yet) spend any $$ on it. I was given/loaned the motor and I had everything else.

If I were to buy what I needed, I'd probably spend less than $25 (assuming I was already ordering something from hobby city).

My final opinion is not yet rendered but at this time I'd say that it creates as many problems as it solves. The main thing it allows is you the ability to move the tail around like for say an Apache scale helicopter.

I flew the DDVP Flasher this morning. Not sure if the tail speed was slower than normal but I was able to move the gain from about 50% to 80%. At 50% it was not holding very well. I have to adjust the T6 radio for more gain, I had it clipped at 80%.
Just tonight, I powered it up on the bench and the elevator joystick is locked at full back. A wire must have come undone or something. I'll try to fix that then adjust some Tx settings via the PC and try again. I need to also flatten out the throttle curve to 100%.

[elkmaster01]

David,,,,I've seen that tail motor system on youtube,,,I think it was a 550 or 600 class heli. Their selling point was 'power' and flight time since the the tail motor had no draw from the main motor or main pack. It was brushless and needed a seperate battery that ran the receiver and the tail motor. I can't remember what the name of the heli was or I'd look it up. They 'claimed' 30% more power to the main rotor that more than offset the added weight of the extra motor and battery.

I wasn't sold,,,but it did look cool!

[dditch66]

I have not flow it since I reworked some stuff. The T6 radio took a dump after I brought it in.
I think it did not handle the cold very well. It was 29F outside when I flew it. When I brought it back in , the elevator input channel died. I did not try to reconfigure it, I just grabbed my other T6 and loaded up the file and reworked the pitch curve for more pitch. I'll try again hopefully this weekend.

I think a torque tube would be more efficient. Heck you want more power, get a stronger motor or battery.

The extra tail weight makes this VERY tail heavy, I'm sure the first forward flight and inverted is gonna look nasty. I hate a tail heavy heli. I'll have to extend the battery tray and use a spare uncut plastic canopy to balance it.

Hey Elk, did that BLE? ESC supposed to work? If not, I'll trash it and rob the connectors off it.
(I'm still happy about what I paid you for it)

When I'm done w/ this DDVP, I'm putting it back together w/ the belt tail and a guy I know wants it.