Goin' Glow

[Doozer]

Well I did it. I bought my first nitro. I don't have it yet, but I'm excited/anxious. Its a used Hirobo that I bought from the Heli-freak classifieds. helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=269895 . As you can see, the price was right. Hirobo helis are known for there resilience and great tracking. Even though this model has been around since 2006, it was given great praise by the few R/C magazines out there. It's hard to find a complaint anywhere about the heli. Heliproz and a few other resellers sell the parts, so I'm not too worried about finding them. The seller had a perfect user rating so i snatched it up.

I originally wanted to go gas... less mess and cheaper to fly. But I talked myself out of it through massive amounts of research and questions. The main drawback was the power loss. Other drawbacks were frequency vibrations, break in time, and size.

I have zero knowledge of glow engines. I can only use what I read as a reference and most of what I'm reading is fairly dated. Instead of building my own, which i like to do, I went the ARTF route because I'm not quite sure I'm sold on glow/gas yet. I can tell you that I'm not a huge fan of the smoke. Also, I will probably need to find a new place to fly. But I've only spent $250 bucks so far. I can get out without losing much of my initial investment.

If I end up loving it. Expect a build. If I end up hating it, look for the heli in Ern's for sale section.

[akphill]

Welcome to the club
Now you need to get a starter , fuel pump,
glow starter, battery, wiping rags, fuel, field box and the radio gear

But once you get started it will be like the electrics habit forming

I have three nitros

[Dave]

less mess and cheaper to fly.

man Doozer are you in for a surprise. I have never seen a nitro, oil saturated chemical that was......... less mess.

Just messing with you Doozer I look forward to your review and maybe a build of one. It has been a long time since we have seen a build from the master builder. I really look forward to your builds they make for some of the best reading out here on any forum.

Dave

[Solitaire]

Well, I suppose it was due to happen sooner or later. Doozer slides to the dark side.
I bought a glow for one of my planes, but haven't considered a heli yet. For some reason planks don't seem to make as much smoke. ;D

Keep us posted, Dooz. You could have a few converts here if it goes right.

[Doozer]

Yeah I have to get the Starter next payday. This is the field box I have in mind:
helihobby.com/html/nitro_filling_station.html Its about halfway down the page. It's helihobby's Nitro starter kit. $235. Unless I find something cheaper for sale in the classifieds before then.

I was hoping to avoid the smoke and mess by buying a gasser, you dont have to use as much oil in the fuel. If I remember correctly it's 2% oil for a Gasser. Nitro's are like 20% I believe. Also, the fuel for gassers is the same as what you use in your car. That's a cheaper fly. The mess isn't my biggest worry. It's the smoke. I live in a high pollution area, Phoenix, and I worry about contributing. I try to do my part even if it's small. If I can get away with running it fairly lean so I don't have as much smoke, I'll probably be happy.

I'm fairly sure I'll be happy though, or else I wouldn't have bought it. I've been looking at the Hirobo SDX's www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=403955

But I've wanted a Audacity Pantera as well. www.genesishobby.com/Products/AUD22601/Default.aspx

Dial Indicating the fan and hub is something that seems a touch scary. Probably because if you're fan isn't spinning true, you could lose your whole engine.

If I really get into it, I'll probably build a few. I need to do the yearly update to my site. I have good intentions with that, but lose focus. No promises.

Edit: BTW Sol, there's still good in me. I'm not giving up on electrics, just the big ones.

[r/c basher]

Looking forward to the build Doozer.

Let me know if you need any help as far as the engine goes, I have several nitro engines in my rc cars that I think would somewhat relate to a heli nitro engine.

One word of advice dont lean the engine out to much because youll ruin the engine, you might want to pick up a temp gauge to make sure the engines temperature isnt to high. The oil in the nitro fuel is already mixed compared to the gassers. Also when you get a new engine you have to break it in.

[Doozer]

Jan 15, 2011 20:28:25 GMT -6 r/c basher said:

Looking forward to the build Doozer.

Let me know if you need any help as far as the engine goes, I have several nitro engines in my rc cars that I think would somewhat relate to a heli nitro engine.

One word of advice dont lean the engine out to much because youll ruin the engine, you might want to pick up a temp gauge to make sure the engines temperature isnt to high. The oil in the nitro fuel is already mixed compared to the gassers. Also when you get a new engine you have to break it in.

I totally enjoyed reading that. Thanks rc, I'll probably come to you with questions. I understand keeping the oil heavier is good. I just wish the smoke was lighter. Do you mean a temp gauge like an Eagle Tree or do you mean land it and temp it? The engine is a Toki 40 (this heli is a 30).

I'm hoping to get the original instructions, but I did go download Sceadu Evo instructions from here:
www.rchelibase.com/hirobo/index.html

The Japanese really do well at breakdowns

So what fuel do you recommend? I mean anything, if you had choose the best fuel you could run, what would it be? After Run Oil as Well. I'm starving for current information. If you know of any good engine sites please link them. Videos too. This is an older engine I'm guessing. As much info that any of you can toss at me will be will appreciated.

[Doozer]

I just looked at the servo linkage set up.... wow. Many moving parts. That's a lot to go wrong....

[r/c basher]

Jan 15, 2011 21:03:08 GMT -6 Doozer said:

Jan 15, 2011 20:28:25 GMT -6 r/c basher said:

Looking forward to the build Doozer.

Let me know if you need any help as far as the engine goes, I have several nitro engines in my rc cars that I think would somewhat relate to a heli nitro engine.

One word of advice dont lean the engine out to much because youll ruin the engine, you might want to pick up a temp gauge to make sure the engines temperature isnt to high. The oil in the nitro fuel is already mixed compared to the gassers. Also when you get a new engine you have to break it in.

I totally enjoyed reading that. Thanks rc, I'll probably come to you with questions. I understand keeping the oil heavier is good. I just wish the smoke was lighter. Do you mean a temp gauge like an Eagle Tree or do you mean land it and temp it? The engine is a Toki 40 (this heli is a 30).

I'm hoping to get the original instructions, but I did go download Sceadu Evo instructions from here:
www.rchelibase.com/hirobo/index.html

The Japanese really do well at breakdowns

So what fuel do you recommend? I mean anything, if you had choose the best fuel you could run, what would it be? After Run Oil as Well. I'm starving for current information. If you know of any good engine sites please link them. Videos too. This is an older engine I'm guessing. As much info that any of you can toss at me will be will appreciated.

I use this temp gauge for my rc cars to make sure its not running to lean just to keep the temp in the ballpark- www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMG5&P=ML . I forgot about that you would have to land everytime to check the temperature.

One thing about tuning is dont treat the needles like a thermostat. I only use the temp gauge as in aid. After you get better at tuning you tune to the smoke trail and sound of the engine. Been doing a little research and it looks like heli engines hold there tune and are alot more consistent in running compared to rc car engines which is a really good thing.

As far as a nitro fuel I dont have much of an idea. I know something along the lines of this would work but never tried the fuel- www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVJS8&P=FR . It seems like O.S makes good engines and are popular.

Also make sure you use after run oil, it prevents the engine from rusting because nitro fuel I think is corrosive. And will make the engine last alot longer. I use this in all my nitro rc cars- www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL391&P=ML .

[r/c basher]

Heres some good basic info about heli engines- www.rchelicopterfun.com/nitro-rc-helicopter-engine.html
www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/nitro-rc-helicopter.html

[akphill]

Say Doozer on your fuel use 15% heli fuel will give you less smoke
you only need 30% if your gonna fly like the pro's
Also is this engine new or has it been flown before makes a difference on how you use it .
You might look at onboard glow starter system
also voltage regulator just a few suggestion's
and you might look at li-ion battery's around 5600 ma flat packs 7.4 volts

[Doozer]

Jan 15, 2011 23:22:30 GMT -6 akphill said:

Say Doozer on your fuel use 15% heli fuel will give you less smoke
you only need 30% if your gonna fly like the pro's
Also is this engine new or has it been flown before makes a difference on how you use it .
You might look at onboard glow starter system
also voltage regulator just a few suggestion's
and you might look at li-ion battery's around 5600 ma flat packs 7.4 volts

will do. The engine has been sitting, but the seller said he started it up and it ran good. This model is 5 years old, and he bought it from a buddy. If nothing else it's the starting point for a project. I would have paid $299 for an airframe only. I might tear it all down before I fly it. I'm going to at least tear the head and tail down.... check the bearings, dampers, belt, and gears. I might just tear down the servos too. If I do, I document it so you guys can see what I'm doing wrong.

[Doozer]

Not sure why I didn't think of this before, but Smack-Talk rc had a great episode on Engine tuning and engine breakdown called "Everything About Nitro Engines." Even showed how to replace the rear bearing. Smack-Talk is Bert Kammerer and Bobby Watts explaining the ins and outs of flying helis. You can download their segments for a price (generally in the $3 per episode range). I'm not sure that all their videos are great for the average flier, but there are a few worth having.

You can get them here:

www.smacktalkrc.com/

[shakey]

Sounds like you want to make more work for yourself. I remember when I bought my 1st gas plane, after all the stuff I had to buy, and build a box to carry all the fuel, battery, starter, and all my gizmo's, I ended up spending a lot of money. Then the fun of cleaning it each time when I was done. I was glade when they came out with all electric. But was nice hearing roar to life. Good luck with your new project. Hope you have great success with it.

No more flying in the backyard, neighbors might not like it lol.

[Doozer]

Jan 16, 2011 21:02:46 GMT -6 shakey said:

Sounds like you want to make more work for yourself. I remember when I bought my 1st gas plane, after all the stuff I had to buy, and build a box to carry all the fuel, battery, starter, and all my gizmo's, I ended up spending a lot of money. Then the fun of cleaning it each time when I was done. I was glade when they came out with all electric. But was nice hearing roar to life. Good luck with your new project. Hope you have great success with it.

No more flying in the backyard, neighbors might not like it lol.

That's exactly what kept me out of liquid fueled this long. As well as, Electrics are very easy to set up at the field, and you can put them in the back seat when you're done. The only problem is you can't fly them all that long. And yeah, I'll probably have to find a new field to fly in, which is why I'm not going to totally get away from electrics. However, I've been doing a lot of reading lately and find glow/gas to be appealing.

I have a bunch of money tied up in batteries and they have a finite life. You get X number of flights out of lipo. 6 cell 5000 mah batteries aren't cheap, even if you buy directly from China. If you look at the cost of a battery, battery charger(s), speed controller, and a motor together for a 600 electric, and then you figure in the amount of time you fly.... an engine and liquid fuel start to look appealing. And sure, I know nitro fuel isn't as cheap as recharge, but I've gone through 3 ESC's, and two 6S 5000's on my 600 and am looking at purchasing another. That's a lot of nitro fuel.

Not only are the batteries limited in life and flight time, but when your fleet is all electric, you're a slave to the charger. I have 8 lipo packs for my 250, 3 for my 450 (Its an outrage g5 so they are 6s), two 6S 2500's for my Guai 425, and 3 6S 5000's for my 600e. These are the just the helis that I fly on a consistent basis. I have a few other helis I fly now and then. Unless you have multiple chargers (add that to your expense list), you'd be charging for hours. You can't just throw a lipo pack on the charger and go to sleep. For safety reasons they have to be watched. I know some people don't do this, but if you don't you're really rolling the dice.

Because I like to know when my batteries are losing their steam, I keep fairly detailed records on each flight i.e. Flight time, mAh in, mAh out, charge rate, charge time, and cell capacity (yep I record data on each cell). This will give you an approximate flight time and a turn around time on your charge at a specific rate. It will also let you know when your cells are dying, so you can avoid a crash due to power loss. Is all that necessary... probably not. There are those that just "wing it" and never have a problem. I just don't feel that lucky I guess.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there is some tedious work to be done with electrics as well. Is all that worth an 6 minute flight.... I'm not so sure anymore.

edit: spelling