HBFP Upgrade To Guru-Z Neon / Xeon

[Doozer]

[intro]
Hello all,

This thread originated in another forum, but I'm going to be moving it here. The transformation from HBFP to Neon is complete as you can see by the Youtube video above. However, I will be changing the frame, once again, to the Guru-Z Xeon frame. This frame is wider and will all for me to store the electronics inside the heli, instead of being zip tied on the outside like you see in the picture. Also, the wiring on this is less than neat.

The head is a full metal HBFP head. The tail is a Trex 450 CNC aluminum tail, with Trex 450 blades. Below I will post some various pics from the other thread and some explanations and thoughts.

No idea is unwelcome. Brainstorming, experience, objections are all welcome as long as they are done in a polite/appropriate manner. I will add my thoughts right or wrong so you can understand my complete thought process, and how I came to conclusions. However we can get these helis to fly with as little downtime as possible is the the ultimate goal. [/introduction]

Below are pics from the beginning of the build:


Here, I had already completed the frame, but not the brushless set up, belt tail, metal head, or Bell Hiller mods. These are the parts laid out.


up-close of Guru-z frame. The stock motor will lift this frame, however your flight time will be reduced.


a little closer view


This is the metal super boom. When I rebuild this heli stock for my kids I'm going to use this boom again. I had to use heat-shrink tubing and a little CA to keep it on.


midway through the upgrade... just trying to figure out placement


Almost there


Before the fire.... yep, my Speed Controller fried


After the fire. Crispy ESC! The ESKY EK1-0350 is a risky ESC I wouldn't use it. If you do... bring hot dogs.


New ESC

Here's a 3 minute video of the damage and the back in the air footage:


Alright, now I've got about 10 more days to wait before the Xeon frame and other parts get here. Will add more then unless there are other posts.

Here's what I have on order:



1 x GS3-2110 3mmx80mm Stainless Steel Shaft (2pcs) (GS3-2110) = US$2.55
1 x GS3-2109 3mmx75mm Stainless Steel Shaft (2pcs) (GS3-2109) = US$2.55
1 x GS3-1027A Tail Boom (12x275mm Gun Metal) (GS3-1027A) = US$3.89
1 x GS3-9002 Screw Pack for Argon/Xeon Series (GS3-9002) = US$2.81
1 x GS3-3301 Metal Belt Guide Set (GS3-3301) = US$4.42
1 x GS3-6101 Carbon Fiber Tail Boom (12x275mm) (GS3-6101) = US$9.25
1 x Xeon - Fiber Frame (GX3-4406) = US$47.53
Tools GTL001 Philip Screwdriver
Extra Parts Gear set (140T main gear, 40T belt gear, one way bearing)
1 x GS3-1051 Belt (430T) (GS3-1051) = US$3.08
1 x GBT3835 High Grade Thrust Bearing (3x8x3.5) (GBT3835) = US$3.48
1 x GS3-1014 Belt (360T) (GS3-1014) = US$3.08

I also ordered a couple of different size shafts, and different belts. I got burned on the guides before so I made sure I had them again. I don't want to destroy the other frame because I may want to use it again. As you can see, I also made sure I had another screw pack. I didn't need the gear, but i did want a new belt gear so I got the kit that came with it. Never hurts to have extra gears laying around anyway. I saw the thrust bearings as well. Didn't know what the hell they were, but they sounded cool. So, If they will make the heli more thrusty, that's cool. If I can't use them I'm only out $3.50 and I got to say the word thrust a bunch of times. I also have another boom, that's red, but I thought I'd order a few more because my booms been taking blade strikes when the grips break free.

[Doozer]

Just a few things to note. Tri flow and/or Lithium grease are your friends here. The motor in this heli is much stronger than recommended so it really spins the blades and bearings. I use motor bearing oil on all my bearings after every four or five battery packs for this reason.

Grease collects dirt fast, so it needs to cleaned off and reapplied regularly. On recommendation, I'm now applying grease to all shafts. Just remember there's a fine line between using grease appropriately and just plain being messy. A super thin layer is all you need. You shouldn't even be able to tell its there unless you touch it.

Why is he saying this? Well, proper lubing gets overlooked. Your heli will last longer if its taken care of. Plus, I was breaking down the Neon to get ready for the Xeon frame and found that one of the inner races of the lower bearing had fused to the shaft. I must have missed this area, because I had to destroy the bearing and the shaft to get the head out. The shaft literally broke off in the inner race of the bearing.

Also, be careful about grasping any of the shafts with pliers. Avoid it if possible. If you must use pliers, do so with some sort of buffer that will take the force of the teeth. If you nick the shaft and leave a burr, make sure to buff and polish it out or you'll never get it to slide through the bearings.

Project Update: Got an email from Addictive Hobby (China), the package is shipped. It's generally 7 days from this point unless the customs agent has a burr in the saddle.

[19000rpm]

I've been using graphite. The type locksmiths use. It seems to do a good job on bearings and unlike other lubricants, except silicon, it doesn't attract dirt. Use very sparingly.

Happy landings

[Solitaire]

Well, I'm going to post this here as there's not much going on over there ------>

Finally replaced the plastic tail on the Neon with the metal DX one. Excellent fit and works so much smoother. Plus there is full range now. Only problem it has a larger ball for the servo linkage. 4.5mm compared the the original 4mm. The screws for the smaller balls aren't long enough to transfer the ball over, so I'll have to order one...story of my life.

[Doozer]

'Bout time!
what do you have lying around? Can you swipe something from a 450 part? Dont order them from China. I'm at work right now so I can't be certain, but if I have spares I'll send you some. Save yourself some shipping and handling at least.

Let me know if I can help.

[Solitaire]

The balls on the Belt are smaller, so won't work. Already ordered a selection from XM, but appreciate the offer.

I could start my own hobby shop with the extra parts I have. I've been eyeing up the "For Sale or Trade" section here. Going to jump on that as soon as this forum gets a bit more exposure.

[Solitaire]

Say Doozer, did you eliminate the Neon thread over at RCDiscuss?
I see it has disappeared.

[Doozer]

No, I and I meant to mention that. I looked for it today and it was gone. I went everywhere to find it and couldn't. It's a brushless conversion. That's exactly where it belongs. The funny thing is, I've defended them many times, I even refused to call them out here, because really I've never had a service issue with them. I did get a little upset when they started moving threads and made a comment in their forum. I've even given them high ratings in the post sale questionaire that gets sent out. I believe I've been fairly loyal to them. I didn't put the 250 thread over there because they don't sell Aligns.

All I can say is wow. That was a huge thread with a ton of information that any beginner wanting to mod a heli, that they sell, could benefit from. I'm not going to worry about it anymore I guess. I wont go back there and post. I guess they are trying to make a statement. I've spent a lot of money with them as well. I bought my CNC 450 tails from them when I could have purchased them for 14 dollars cheaper from Miracle-Mart. I bought my HM5#10 for 30 dollars more from them when I could have bought it cheaper at wowhobbies. I didn't like the bait and switch tactics wow was using, but I never spoke out against it. I just wasn't going to support it with my money. Oh well, I'll spend my money elsewhere from now on I guess.

[Doozer]

I figured out what it was. Go and try to find a thread that has pictures of my heli fire in it. I did... couldn't find one.

[Solitaire]

I've noticed a few things missing. Their sensors are now setup to remove certain competitors names. We tried Heliguy yesterday and it was removed.

I think I'll email them. If XHeli wants that thread to be used for customer service and support, they better not piss off the sources that are there to help. Support that doesn't cost them a dime.

edit> I guess we just broke the "do not hijack" rule
Damm, it's hard not to do that. Delete this after you've read it.

edit2> I also see that serialgrillers and that rtfheli guy were made to remove their links in the threads as well.

[Doozer]

nah... not gonna delete it, i can't anyway, but its not a hijack becaue it is specifically about this thread, that was located somewhere else.

However, much like Nuttcaze did, I am going to create a website That explains the whole Esky Fire situation. Including that the ESC's are still being sold and that Xheli removed my posts. They don't realize that doing this doesn't absolve them and they wont be free of any liability. They know, they've been told, They've seen the damage not just from me, but from others as well. Do a search on R/C Groups, R/C Universe, Helifreak, or YouTube for ESC fires or heli fires and see what you come up with. You'll see that this is not an isolated incident. If this happened with autos, there'd be a recall.

Really, I was just trying to help, not rant. I have kids, they're older now, but we all know that kids fly these things. My kids fly these things. In the winter are you going to learn to fly outside... nope, probably in your garage. Is the lawnmower in there, are there cardboard or wooden boxes?? ... there are in my garage. These ESC's could seriously damage someones home... or worse.

Anyway, don't worry about the small stray from the subject, its cool... we'll just move on from this point.

[Solitaire]

Feb 8, 2009 11:40:35 GMT -6 Doozer said:

I figured out what it was. Go and try to find a thread that has pictures of my heli fire in it. I did... couldn't find one.

Hmmm, I don't know what to think now

www.rcdiscuss.com/index.php/topic,7251.0.html

[Doozer]

I thought I was going crazy.. so I pulled up threads with my name in them and a lot of threads pop up, but if I go to where they are supposed to be... they aren't there.

I just bumbed my "Esky's Handywork" thread to the front... yeah... don't know why they did it now. Maybe it was so far back they missed it??? We'll see what happens.

[Doozer]

Here's what I've been up to today. Rebuilding the Old Honey Bee.. Just missing two mainshaft bearings, shaft collar, and canopy. Ordered now waiting!

[mtnmole]

I'm new and going to NOT follow the expert advice and I want to build a new heli with my HBFP parts, actually, I probably won't use much of anything from the HBFP. I found out you can buy a Compy frame complete w/o electronics from www.aero-fever.net/product_info.php?cPath=19&products_id=641 That works out to $105.00 US. Would I be better to go this route or with the Guru-z Neon kit?

I'm still working on a brushless motor/esc-bec combo and the dx6i that should be here in about a month. Until then I will use the 4n1 from my HBFP to get it up in the air whichever way I go.

Any tip from you builders would be appreciated

Dave