HBFP Upgrade To Guru-Z Neon / Xeon

[Solitaire]

The Compy and the Guru-Z are virtually identical. I'm not sure what you get in the Compy deluxe kit that makes it $106. They were selling the kits (not deluxe) for $77-$80 previously.

You may want to do a bit more checking and see what you get for the extra money. BTW, these kits are available from other suppliers as well. Here are two that offer kits in various versions.

www.addictive-hobby.com/
www.heli-fever.com/

[Doozer]

Feb 8, 2009 22:30:35 GMT -6 mtnmole said:

I'm new and going to NOT follow the expert advice and I want to build a new heli with my HBFP parts, actually, I probably won't use much of anything from the HBFP. I found out you can buy a Compy frame complete w/o electronics from www.aero-fever.net/product_info.php?cPath=19&products_id=641 That works out to $105.00 US. Would I be better to go this route or with the Guru-z Neon kit?

I'm still working on a brushless motor/esc-bec combo and the dx6i that should be here in about a month. Until then I will use the 4n1 from my HBFP to get it up in the air whichever way I go.

Any tip from you builders would be appreciated

Dave

Hey Dave,
This used to be a much longer thread in another forum. I'm a fan of the Guru-Z frame. I've ordered a Xeon and will be building it in this thread if you want to follow. The Neon is a tough little frame, it's made it through many crashes and a fire. However, the Guru-z tail is crap, the skids are crap, and the screws strip fairly easy. If you do buy the frame buy extra screws. I use a 450 belt tail. The Compy belt gear looks to be better, and you get a CNC main gear with the belt gear. The plastic guru belt gear is ok... but, I'm a fan of metal over plastic. Metal will bend but can bent back. Plastic will break and your screwed without replacements.

Don't get the metal hub from Extreme. Another person on this forum RTFHELI, sells metal hub that looks to be a direct fit to the main shaft. The Extreme metal hub is proprietary in the fact that it uses a large bolt to secure the hub to the shaft instead of a pin. This means you are locked into buying their shafts or drilling a hole yourself (have fun with that).

Metal bell hiller control arms make this thing very responsive.

Parts I swear by: Xtreme FRP blades, you have to run into a tree before they'll break; Superskids you have to run into the same tree and they still wont break; Waypoint ESC's; Fusuno fiberglass canopies; and stainless flybars. Waypoint speed controllers are Super super easy to program. I use a 35A in this heli, and my 450. They don't get hot at all. I'm a little more than paranoid when it comes to speed controllers though. In the fire I had (see the other page) a plastic canopy would have melted. The plastic canopies break easy as well.

Parts I run through: not many lately... bearings (you'll be pushing these bearings hard if you go brushless), mainshafts, tail tubes if you go belt tail, skids if you don't use superskids, oh... ring-like pushrods. Buy those by the dozen. Extra blades. Usual stuff.

People will tell you don't do this mod, "it's a waste of money." I'm so glad I did it. I've completely built and setup 3 helis now. Not many I know, but I've learned a great deal doing them. I've got at least two more builds planned. Just remember that buying from one dealer and having one shipping charge can turn out cheaper than searching for deals all over and paying multiple shipping charges.

That's it... sorry just drank some coffee. Have fun and remember to post some pictures.

[mtnmole]

Thanks for the head's up Doozer. I will follow your threads and advice looking to not make so many mistakes along the way. I know exactly what you mean by shipping, one of the points that keeps me from jumping in right now way over my head is having to order from several different vendors. Some in US and some in China. It has taken me 2 months to get stuff from Hobbyking and that sux.

I do like that Compy kit I linked, comes with canopy, complete head and a few other goodies to save on over going with the Guru-z stuff. I'm glad you told me about the tail. I think that will be the kicker to make me pull the trigger on the Compy.

I will take photos along the way and as soon as I figure out how to post pictures I will do so when the actual building starts. Hopefully in about 2 weeks as I start collecting stuff. Those Fusuno canopies are hot - found those the other day. My helicopter bookmarks are about 5 pages long from all the goodies I found/want ;D.

Dave

[Doozer]

Look forward to your posts Dave. Solitaire and I built up a 9 page thread on the other forum, before they deleted it. It was mainly us. It will be cool to see or hear about your progress.

Just to note: I bought a 450 Fusuno canopy and modified it with my dremel.... I'm sure it can be done with an exacto and sandpaper too. Oh, and remember that your 7.4V batteries wont be doing the trick once you go brushless. It will spin the rotors and you might get a few inches off the ground. Zippy's look to be the inexpensive batteries of choice.

[Doozer]

Guess what arrived from China today?


I had gone online to track the package. I was expecting it tomorrow but I saw that it was at my post office this morning. So I quickly took apart the Neon. I had already taken the head off so it wasn't that hard.


When I purchased this package it was $40 dollars and there wasn't a 3mm version www.addictive-hobby.com/index.php?cPath=1_46 Now there's a 3mm version with a 5mm tail mount. That's not the size tail mount I need but ... oh well. There is a difference. The 5mm comes with a 12mm tail boom mount, but a 5mm shaft. The bearings are 5mm as well. Also, the main gear is fro the 5mm shaft. I was using the microheli gear anyway, so no biggie.


Got all my parts laid out


Heres the empty Neon frame.

I ordered some ceramic bearings from helidirect. But I'm going to try these thrust bearings first

I bought them on an impulse, I really didn't know what the were when I bought them, but they sounded cool. Anyway, I've since researched it some. So I'm going to try it.

This is what I'll be doing for the next few days.

[Doozer]

I wanted to come on and check to make sure that I did remind you guys that the screws suck. I did, but I was just making sure, because they do. I've really taken my time here and had to throw away 1/3 of the screw pack. That number is a guess that is giving the screws a little credit. I'm even using the screwdriver they supply. I tried some left over 250 screws and they were too small. Those screws are pure crap.

Anyway, if you buy any of the Guru-Z kits a new screwpack or two is a must... at least one. Two if you know that you'll be doing other mods.

Sheeesh!

[mtnmole]

So how long did the trip take for parts? Just curious.

Also, I am having trouble finding a decent motor(brushless). I noticed most of your bags have the Guru-z label - are your motors and esc from the same vendor?

I found this as a possibility for the motor, thoughts? www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A2586784&pid=A4128244

And this for ESC www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A0780192&pid=C1506847

I will be using the AR6200 from my DX6i for a receiver.

I looked at RTF's site and I really like the walkera head he has, that would be my choice. but it will only work on a Walkera shaft because they are notched at the top and E-skys are not, they are just a straight shaft. But if they are both 3mm it is a non-issue, I will just use a Walkera shaft .

On your earlier thought about the difference in the Compy versions, one is complete w/o electronics or servos, the cheaper kit is just a basic frame and canopy, no head parts other than a shaft

Dave

[Solitaire]

I think Doozer got one of the Guru motors, but not sure what he did with it.

I got this one www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_385&products_id=1524 for my Guru. Works like a champ and is a few grams lighter than the one in your link. I didn't use the included pinion.

Not familiar with the ESC in your link. I'm using a HobbyWing Pentium 30A in mine. Volcano is another good choice. Again, a few grams lighter than the BPHobbies ESC if you are weight conscious at all.

[Doozer]

Feb 9, 2009 20:10:07 GMT -6 mtnmole said:

So how long did the trip take for parts? Just curious.

Also, I am having trouble finding a decent motor(brushless). I noticed most of your bags have the Guru-z label - are your motors and esc from the same vendor?

I found this as a possibility for the motor, thoughts? www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A2586784&pid=A4128244

And this for ESC www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A0780192&pid=C1506847

I will be using the AR6200 from my DX6i for a receiver.

I looked at RTF's site and I really like the walkera head he has, that would be my choice. but it will only work on a Walkera shaft because they are notched at the top and E-skys are not, they are just a straight shaft. But if they are both 3mm it is a non-issue, I will just use a Walkera shaft .

On your earlier thought about the difference in the Compy versions, one is complete w/o electronics or servos, the cheaper kit is just a basic frame and canopy, no head parts other than a shaft

Dave

That'll work. I haven't built a Compy.... I guess maybe it would be coold to do that, then do a comparison. I think you should check your dimensions. Are compy motors in frame or out? I know the ESKY 450 Brushless the EK5-0006 works. That's what I'm running now. But if you go that route, don't use an ESKY 25 Amp ESC. That has been problematic for some, and I'm one of the some.

When I originally bought the first Guru tail, I bought the brushless motor and ESC. Guru slaps their sticker on a 3900 kV GE brushless motor, and also relabels a what looks to be a hobbywing ESC. Mine was crapola. The motor was sweet, but I got a new motor for my 450 so I gave the Guru a hand me down. Mucho power.

www.addictive-hobby.com/index.php?cPath=1_2_42

This page right here will have all that you want parts wise, except the compy frame... that's Aero-fever. Turn around from them was quick, considering it's China. I ordered Jan. 30th and they got here today. So 11 days from order. 7 dollars shipping.

KA-Planes carries a limited amount of parts. But nothing new recently. I'd buy from them if they carried parts like these Chinese sites do. But they don't so off to China I go.

The reason I came on was to post that I'm almost done with the transition from Neon to Xeon. I have all of the basic flight electronics installed. I'm going to get it in the air, dial in the tail, then throw Co-Pilot on it. There's plenty of room now. I've take a bunch of pics again, and I'll post them when I'm done. The thrust bearings were a pain, but they work. The screws.... ugh... I can't bring myself to say again the things i said ... I literally bent a 15 mm screw on the Fiber frame.... yep... no damage to the frame, the screw bent and the screwdriver went right into my finger. It hurts more now typing then it did then. I took a picture of the bent screw. I'm going to send it to Ming.

However..... ...... ..... a thought hit me right afterward. I have a Hobico hand drill set.... so I started pre-drilling all the holes with a 1/16 bit. Worked like a charm I only stripped one or two screws after that. I'm also not real impressed with the plastic. The Neon bottom was G-10 frame... the Xeon bottom is plastic. Not good plastic either. Its the same flimsy plastic they made the tail out of.

Good news though... on the Horizon is a 400 FP. First day it goes on sale I'm snatching one up.

ok... that's it for now. I'll start with a fresh brain in the morning.

Later,
Robby

[Doozer]

Just a few pics while I procrastinate doing something I don't want to do. I have to pull the gear out because the motor isn't meshing well, and I cant get to the screw. That's a pain. Here's the pics:


I'm just not real impressed with the plastic pieces. The Neon frame is solid. After time, plastic warps and the screw holes open up. I hear a tone coming from the R/C groups thread that I'm not necessarily happy about. Guru-Z, Ming, wants to get cheaper. I guess the global economy is hitting everyone pretty hard. However, I'll stop buying these frames if they start making them more and more plastic and less G-10. My 450 frame was only $54 dollars. It's bigger than the Xeon. The frame pieces themselves are 2.75 mm thick vs. 1.4 mm thick on the Xeon. The 450 frame has aluminum cross supports, all fiber bottom, metal bearing mounts and servo mounts, metal boom support, metal motor mount, and a metal belt tail gear mount. It was only 14 dollars more!!! So go figure. True the Xeon did come in a box with its on crappy screwdriver but, eh, the 450 frame couldn't win every category. I hope they don't try to make this any cheaper. The frame design is really nice. Maybe I'm being too critical, I haven't even flown it yet.


Co-Pilot goes here.


This is where I sit as of this moment. I have to work today so it will be slow going over the next four days. I'll try to post build pics tonight

[McKrackin]

Awesome ;D

Are we still looking at a FP heli?

[Doozer]

Yep. Most of the head is an Extreme HBFP metal head. It used to be all metal but, the extreme metal hub used a bolt to mount the shaft to the hub instead of a pin. So until a get off my rear and order a metal one from RTF, I'm using a plastic hub. The shaft is 80 mm instead of 70 mm and Extreme doesn't make a shaft that long.

[McKrackin]

That's cool.I've never seen so much work go into a FP before.I didn't even know most of these mods existed.

Can't wait to see more.

[Solitaire]

Feb 10, 2009 2:52:30 GMT -6 Doozer said:

Good news though... on the Horizon is a 400 FP. First day it goes on sale I'm snatching one up.

Robby

I think I read that four times and it didn't click.
Wasn't sure if you were making a subtle reference to Horizon Hobby or just a slip of the <shift> key. Have you found a 400 FP somewhere?

[Solitaire]

Feb 11, 2009 11:34:09 GMT -6 McKrackin said:

That's cool.I've never seen so much work go into a FP before.I didn't even know most of these mods existed.

Can't wait to see more.

I thought for sure you had seen Doozer's thread at RCDiscuss. Here's a couple of pics of mine. We basically built them at the same time. I just took longer...no...a LOT longer


CNC main gear and belt pulley, tail servo and AR6100E location


HDX300 BL motor w/9T, 3S 1350mAh 15C, HobbyWing 30A


Finished product before replacing the plastic tail with the DX metal set (below). HBK2 canopy for a little extra room and the vents for the motor


Still waiting for a larger link to connect the servo pushrod