E-Flight Blade SR

[cubusaddendum]

Mar 29, 2010 12:19:41 GMT -6 McKrackin said:

Don't get me wrong here.
I'm not saying you aren't the OP,only that the numbers are the same everywhere I go.

Bantin-type would be a good name for them.lol...
There needs to be a warning that these numbers might drastically reduce fore and aft control in some cases.In cases like mine it may even cause constant and unstopable forward looping.lol....Those settings would have me at full forward elevator every time I apply some throttle.

That's because they only work with the DX6i. Wasn't it originally developed for the blade 400? There's bound to be a connection as to why the default travels and polarity are so non-standard.

[cubusaddendum]

Here's a quick little pdf I knocked up to describing the Bantin-type throttle curve.

Attachments:

[cubusaddendum]

I was trying out a brushless tail mod today.

[McKrackin]

What motor did you use?

[cubusaddendum]

I listed the motor part at the start of the video: BlueArrow BL-1230. I ordered a new 2BLC converter for putting on the 2-in-1's tail motor output, but since it hasn't arrived yet I'm using the DX6i's Revo mix to tide me over.

[Solitaire]

Hmmm, I didn't really see any wag at 65%, but I guess you're closer.

Maybe I missed that post, but did your stock tail motor give out already?

[cubusaddendum]

Apr 3, 2010 18:53:06 GMT -6 Solitaire said:

Hmmm, I didn't really see any wag at 65%, but I guess you're closer.

The numbers are normalized. The actual servo deflections were 67.5%, 75%, 87.5% and 90%. Sorry for the confusion.

Apr 3, 2010 18:53:06 GMT -6 Solitaire said:

Maybe I missed that post, but did your stock tail motor give out already?

No not yet. I just hate brushed motors! I had this postulation that its poor performance was screwing with the gyro, so I just did that little experiment to find out if I was on to something. Turns out I was.

[McKrackin]

I'm a little confused.
Did you use a second ESC or find a way to use the brushed ESC?
Maybe a brushed to brushless signal convertor.

I'd like some real detail on the electronics used.

[Raygun]

You dont need a converter you just go from the 6110 to the gyro off the gyro to the esc from the esc to the tail motor. One important thing is you have to remove the center signal wire on the esc from the gyro just pull it out of the connector and put some heat shrink around it. If you do not you will be feeding power to the gyro from two locations plus the bec's in the esc will be fighting for control one will lose.. Ray

[McKrackin]

Now , is that a second ESC?

[Solitaire]

Yes, a second ESC. Every motor needs it's own speed controller.
Now, Ray brings up a good point. Since the SR comes with a 6110 Rx and a separate gyro, a convertor shouldn't be needed, although there is something in the SR that controlled the brushed tail motor.

Must be that 2 in 1 he mentioned...whatever that is, but maybe it can be eliminated altogether.

[cubusaddendum]

Apr 4, 2010 22:01:49 GMT -6 Solitaire said:

Must be that 2 in 1 he mentioned...whatever that is, but maybe it can be eliminated altogether.

I'm referring to the E-flight 2-in-1 control unit that the Blade SR comes with. I.e. ESC and tail motor mixer.

Actually I don't want to eliminate it - there are are too many advantages to keeping it there:

1. I like a non-linear throttle curve - something that the linear revo mix on the DX6i can't compensate for. You also need a subtrim rudder of -100% to get a balanced throw. If you use the tail mixer's output the tail motor speed is always close enough for the HH gyro to do the rest, irrespective of what kind of throttle response you are using.

2. The tail ESC won't initialize unless the rudder is hard left on binding.

3. Because of the above points, you preclude the stock radio if you eliminate the 2-in-1 unit.

I will convert the brushed ESC signal to a pure servo signal using a 2BLC board and feed that into the Pentium 10A ESC. Since the power supply wires were already segmented by a JST I just added a small JST Y-lead that then passes 11.1V to the tail ESC.

Just waiting for parts.

[cubusaddendum]

Apr 4, 2010 15:52:08 GMT -6 McKrackin said:

I'd like some real detail on the electronics used.

Oh don't worry, I'll post a fully documented mod here when it's ready.

[Raygun]

I did this mod on my 180D before I went the route I did there is a way around most of that the gyro does not like trim sub trim or other it also does not work with revo mixing very well in HHold. To make the tail rotor initialize you have to make the esc think the center point is in the middle the best way to do that is set your TX at 1/2 throttle plug in the esc wait for the beeps and lower the throttle to the bottom it will beep a couple more times. Now when you initialize the esc thinks its value is in the middle. It worked for me anyway with a Pentium 10amp ESC. This way you could elliminate the 2 in 1 and go with two esc's. You can also slave the rudder to the throttle channel that works good as well.. Ray

After looking a bit there is a guy who did the same thing I was talking about and that bird really fly's nice. The video is on RC groups. Ray

[cubusaddendum]

Ok so...

1. To be clear: you cannot eliminate the 2-in-1 unit as one of its constituents is the brushless ESC for the main motor. You would have replace it with another brushless ESC. I just don't see the point as it would just be spending more money.

2. The tail mixer output appears to be pure DC, not a brushed ESC signal as required by the 2BLC converter. Game over.

3. I tried what Ray suggested. I get different behavior. If I start up with the throttle stick at 50% both the main motor ESC and the new tail motor ESC go into some kind of error state that can't be fixed by zeroing the throttle after any length of time. If memory serves, during the bind process the Spektrum AR6110e requires zero throttle before it will arm. By waiting around with the throttle up, what I'm actually doing is allowing the initialization phase of each ESC to time out.

So my conclusion is that for this mod to work I will have do what I did originally, which is connect the tail motor ESC servo signal from the output of the gyro, and power it from the JST-Y lead I made. If necessary, I will try to cope with a mostly linear throttle curve to get a matching revo mix.

I've also ordered a couple more 12mm motors (3800kv and 5200kv) to see which kv rating gives the best performance for this application. See? I'm saving the rest of you a bunch of money right there.

-Rob.